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Space Suggestion: Use "Fréchet space R^ω" as the default name for S30 #986

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Description

@StevenClontz

Space Suggestion

Use "Fréchet space $\mathbb R^\omega$" as the default name for S30.

Rationale

While there are numerous aliases and characterizations for this space, the most elegant (in terms of the topological properties we model in $\pi$-Base) is probably the Tychonoff product of countably-many copies of the real line.

See also discussion at #956.

Activity

  1. changed the title [-]Space Suggestion: Use "Fréchet space $\mathbb R^\omega$" as the default name for S30[/-] [+]Space Suggestion: Use "Fréchet space R^ω" as the default name for S30[/+] on Dec 1, 2024
  2. prabau commented on Dec 1, 2024

    @prabau
    Collaborator

    It would be a little bit of a shame to lose the Hilbert space from the main list, but your point has some validity.
    Before making a decision, note also that most of the proofs for the asserted traits assume the Hilbert space incarnation.

    Soliciting more input from other contributors.

  3. david20000813 commented on Dec 1, 2024

    @david20000813
    Collaborator

    There is technically some confusion about the name "Fréchet space", coming from someone with a background in functional analysis. That confusion is sort of already there in the description for S30, namely, in the line "... any infinite-dimensional separable Banach space or separable Fréchet space is homeomorphic to...", where the term "Fréchet space" means very different things than $\mathbb{R}^\omega$. Instead, it refers to a locally convex topological vector space whose topology is completely metrizable. But I do agree that, from a purely topological perspective, $\mathbb{R}^\omega$ is sort of the most elegant one. Whether causing confusion for functional analysts is an important concern or not is debatable.

  4. prabau commented on Dec 1, 2024

    @prabau
    Collaborator

    Have just $\mathbb R^\omega$ in the title?

    I would also prefer to not have "Frechet space" in the title if we go with that space for the name.

  5. david20000813 commented on Dec 1, 2024

    @david20000813
    Collaborator

    @prabau I don’t think any space in pi-Base currently has just symbols as its name. There’s always some English description attached. Maybe we can say “Countable product of reals $\mathbb{R}^\omega$”, parallel with S107?

  6. GeoffreySangston commented on Dec 1, 2024

    @GeoffreySangston
    Collaborator

    I like @david20000813's last suggestion, "Countable product of reals $\mathbb{R}^\omega$".

    I guess this was assumed, but 'Hilbert space $\ell^2$' should still at least be an alias if it's not the title.

  7. prabau commented on Dec 1, 2024

    @prabau
    Collaborator

    And if we go with the suggested space as a main name, I guess for the proofs of traits that rely on Hilbert space, we can either replace them with an easy direct proof for $\mathbb{R}^\omega$ if there is one, or add "In its incarnation as the separable Hilbert space $\ell^2$, blah blah" or something of the kind, relying on the homeomorphisms presented in the README file.

  8. StevenClontz commented on Dec 2, 2024

    @StevenClontz
    MemberAuthor

    "Countable product of reals $\mathbb R^\omega$" sounds great to me. Note Frechet also means $T_1$.

    I'll make a PR for everyone's consideration.

  9. StevenClontz commented on Dec 2, 2024

    @StevenClontz
    MemberAuthor

    Er, well, we should wait for #975 first (there's no rush here).

  10. david20000813 commented on Dec 2, 2024

    @david20000813
    Collaborator

    #975 is now complete.

    Note Frechet also means $T_1$.

    My training as a functional analyst instead of a topologist does show here lol. I only thought of Fréchet space as a kind of topological vector space instead of it being a synonym of $T_1$.

    After further research, I realized there is even one more point of confusion: Fréchet Urysohn spaces were called Fréchet spaces in some sources.

  11. StevenClontz commented on Dec 2, 2024

    @StevenClontz
    MemberAuthor

    After further research, I realized there is even one more point of confusion: Fréchet Urysohn spaces were called Fréchet spaces in some sources.

    Ooh, we should add Fréchet as an alias here; I've see this as well.

  12. david20000813 commented on Dec 2, 2024

    @david20000813
    Collaborator

    @StevenClontz This paper mentions three different names for Fréchet Urysohn spaces: Fréchet spaces, closure-sequential spaces, and neighborhood-sequential (or $N$-sequential) spaces.

    (And the Wikipedia article for sequential spaces, for some reason, mentions the names $N$-sequential and Fréchet Urysohn in the same section, without ever saying they are the same thing.)

  13. prabau commented on Dec 3, 2024

    @prabau
    Collaborator

    After further research, I realized there is even one more point of confusion: Fréchet Urysohn spaces were called Fréchet spaces in some sources.

    Ooh, we should add Fréchet as an alias here; I've see this as well.

    How about not adding Frechet as an alias for Frechet-Urysohn? Someone who types Frechet in a search will see Frechet-Urysohn displayed already, so the clear choice to explore will be obvious.

    But maybe we should add a hyphen: Fréchet-Urysohn? Seems to be more common.

  14. StevenClontz commented on Dec 6, 2024

    @StevenClontz
    MemberAuthor

    I like the switch to Fréchet-Urysohn for the main name.

    I still think adding the alias Fréchet is wise: if someone's reading an older paper and sees "Fréchet" they may not think to look at Fréchet-Urysohn without the alias.

    I'll mock up a PR and we can see how we feel.

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